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	<title>Comments on: Secret Design of WoW PvE: Your role in a PvE raid</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.groupsofwords.com/2008/07/08/secret-design-of-wow-pve-your-role-in-a-pve-raid/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.groupsofwords.com/2008/07/08/secret-design-of-wow-pve-your-role-in-a-pve-raid/</link>
	<description>prefers 1000 words over an image</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: gowwriter</title>
		<link>http://www.groupsofwords.com/2008/07/08/secret-design-of-wow-pve-your-role-in-a-pve-raid/comment-page-1/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>gowwriter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 04:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.groupsofwords.com/?p=49#comment-103</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the feedback, Kadir.

I'm trying to avoid going into too much detail regarding each spec and how it achieves its goals and just trying to stick with "Briefly, why are raid leaders interested in X character?". There are plenty of other sources that go into great detail if someone gets curious about the nuts and bolts.

I appreciate the catch on pally auras, though. Can't believe I forgot them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the feedback, Kadir.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m trying to avoid going into too much detail regarding each spec and how it achieves its goals and just trying to stick with &#8220;Briefly, why are raid leaders interested in X character?&#8221;. There are plenty of other sources that go into great detail if someone gets curious about the nuts and bolts.</p>
<p>I appreciate the catch on pally auras, though. Can&#8217;t believe I forgot them!</p>
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		<title>By: Kadir</title>
		<link>http://www.groupsofwords.com/2008/07/08/secret-design-of-wow-pve-your-role-in-a-pve-raid/comment-page-1/#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator>Kadir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.groupsofwords.com/?p=49#comment-102</guid>
		<description>Kudos to that warlock person up there too.

And this summary rules. It's much better than the one on WoWinsider that I showed my guild leader months ago.

Demo is all about survivability - like BM it's decent until the pet dies, then it's mediocre. It does have less efficiency than affliction but come on... affliction is the most mana efficient spec in the game. Demo locks have damage reduction and a larger health pool and sometimes a better health stone, so they can get away with tapping more. They also have surprisingly good personal (not pet) damage thanks to Master Demonologist and Demonic Knowledge, which scales with raid buffs afaik. Sacrificing is usually what hybrid aff/demo or destro/demo locks do because it negates all of the pet talents. Demo demons are sturdy creatures, keep them alive and you'll be fine.

Destro I don't know too well but basically, it's a fire mage with DoTs. 0/21/40 is supposedly the best lock build of all time once you get endgame gear; the first time our guild beat Kara, the top DPS was a destro lock with 4 000 000 damage total.

Retribution paladins bring one decent debuff (technically two, but one won't touch bosses) and an aura that increases party damage. Speaking of which... you didn't mention auras for paladins. VERY important. Concentration Aura with the appropriate talents can give healers 100% uninterruptibility.

Assassination rogues have Improved Kidney Shot, which works well on anything that can be stunned. Sub rogues have Hemo of course. For those odd cases where there are no warriors, Expose Armor will help a bear tank.

You are correct about elemental shamans - PvP mostly, because shamans are the least mana efficient class in the game and the generic elemental shaman build does not max out Unrelenting Storm.

There's a strange variant of the holy paladin called the Shockadin, which does magical damage in PvP. Special mention perhaps? :) You might want to mention that holy paladins are considered best single target healers mainly because of mana efficiency (ie Flash of Light).

Also, for priests, "versatile" sounds better than 'second best' IMO, since the reader already knows who's best. They keep groups and single targets alive and switch between them with little fuss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos to that warlock person up there too.</p>
<p>And this summary rules. It&#8217;s much better than the one on WoWinsider that I showed my guild leader months ago.</p>
<p>Demo is all about survivability - like BM it&#8217;s decent until the pet dies, then it&#8217;s mediocre. It does have less efficiency than affliction but come on&#8230; affliction is the most mana efficient spec in the game. Demo locks have damage reduction and a larger health pool and sometimes a better health stone, so they can get away with tapping more. They also have surprisingly good personal (not pet) damage thanks to Master Demonologist and Demonic Knowledge, which scales with raid buffs afaik. Sacrificing is usually what hybrid aff/demo or destro/demo locks do because it negates all of the pet talents. Demo demons are sturdy creatures, keep them alive and you&#8217;ll be fine.</p>
<p>Destro I don&#8217;t know too well but basically, it&#8217;s a fire mage with DoTs. 0/21/40 is supposedly the best lock build of all time once you get endgame gear; the first time our guild beat Kara, the top DPS was a destro lock with 4 000 000 damage total.</p>
<p>Retribution paladins bring one decent debuff (technically two, but one won&#8217;t touch bosses) and an aura that increases party damage. Speaking of which&#8230; you didn&#8217;t mention auras for paladins. VERY important. Concentration Aura with the appropriate talents can give healers 100% uninterruptibility.</p>
<p>Assassination rogues have Improved Kidney Shot, which works well on anything that can be stunned. Sub rogues have Hemo of course. For those odd cases where there are no warriors, Expose Armor will help a bear tank.</p>
<p>You are correct about elemental shamans - PvP mostly, because shamans are the least mana efficient class in the game and the generic elemental shaman build does not max out Unrelenting Storm.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a strange variant of the holy paladin called the Shockadin, which does magical damage in PvP. Special mention perhaps? :) You might want to mention that holy paladins are considered best single target healers mainly because of mana efficiency (ie Flash of Light).</p>
<p>Also, for priests, &#8220;versatile&#8221; sounds better than &#8217;second best&#8217; IMO, since the reader already knows who&#8217;s best. They keep groups and single targets alive and switch between them with little fuss.</p>
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		<title>By: Kikidas</title>
		<link>http://www.groupsofwords.com/2008/07/08/secret-design-of-wow-pve-your-role-in-a-pve-raid/comment-page-1/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>Kikidas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.groupsofwords.com/?p=49#comment-93</guid>
		<description>Looks good to me! I'd hardly presume to tell you how to rewrite something. :) It does have the most lines devoted to it (4 lines in the 'common' paragraph! Woot woot), which is appropriate since warlocks are better than any other class. (I jest.) 

I wish I could give you better information on dest/demo, but I just haven't played with it enough. 

Warlocks have the most number of crowd control abilities.. I think? Seduce, Banish and Enslave and we can do two at once. Seduce + Banish, or Banish + Enslave. (Not counting fear as a 'crowd control' ability, but it is.)

But that's a whole other story. :) Wonderful posts, like I said earlier. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks good to me! I&#8217;d hardly presume to tell you how to rewrite something. :) It does have the most lines devoted to it (4 lines in the &#8216;common&#8217; paragraph! Woot woot), which is appropriate since warlocks are better than any other class. (I jest.) </p>
<p>I wish I could give you better information on dest/demo, but I just haven&#8217;t played with it enough. </p>
<p>Warlocks have the most number of crowd control abilities.. I think? Seduce, Banish and Enslave and we can do two at once. Seduce + Banish, or Banish + Enslave. (Not counting fear as a &#8216;crowd control&#8217; ability, but it is.)</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s a whole other story. :) Wonderful posts, like I said earlier. Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: gowwriter</title>
		<link>http://www.groupsofwords.com/2008/07/08/secret-design-of-wow-pve-your-role-in-a-pve-raid/comment-page-1/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>gowwriter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.groupsofwords.com/?p=49#comment-92</guid>
		<description>Kikidas, thanks for the warlock primer. I took a stab at a warlock section, would you word anything differently?

Lassira, thanks much for the knowledge, I revised that entry to reflect your comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kikidas, thanks for the warlock primer. I took a stab at a warlock section, would you word anything differently?</p>
<p>Lassira, thanks much for the knowledge, I revised that entry to reflect your comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Lassirra</title>
		<link>http://www.groupsofwords.com/2008/07/08/secret-design-of-wow-pve-your-role-in-a-pve-raid/comment-page-1/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>Lassirra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.groupsofwords.com/?p=49#comment-91</guid>
		<description>Its probably worth mentioning: a Survival build for hunters is not just about PvP viability. The raid-wide Expose Weakness buff seems to be much sought-after in end-game (read: T6) content, where the gear the hunter would be wearing really makes the EW buff shine. (Expose Weakness provides a buff of 25% of the hunter's Agility as Attack Power to all attackers, raid-wide.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its probably worth mentioning: a Survival build for hunters is not just about PvP viability. The raid-wide Expose Weakness buff seems to be much sought-after in end-game (read: T6) content, where the gear the hunter would be wearing really makes the EW buff shine. (Expose Weakness provides a buff of 25% of the hunter&#8217;s Agility as Attack Power to all attackers, raid-wide.)</p>
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		<title>By: kikidas</title>
		<link>http://www.groupsofwords.com/2008/07/08/secret-design-of-wow-pve-your-role-in-a-pve-raid/comment-page-1/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>kikidas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.groupsofwords.com/?p=49#comment-88</guid>
		<description>To start with... I'm biased towards a hybrid affliction spec (my own: dark pact/ruin), so take what I say with a grain of salt. 

Affliction: Multiple varities of afflock. Highest raid damage is Unstable Affliction warlock, which has the most DoT's of any spec of warlock. If they use malediction, their curse of elements/curse of shadow bonus damage is increased - which makes mages, warlocks and shadow priests happy (can't wait until it's just one curse!). Most afflocks keep their infinite mana potion (aka IMP) out and phased. Rarely run out of mana due to life tap + siphon life + dark pact. Aggro is an issue (for all warlock specs), as though you don't spike quickly, you just keep going and we have a single 5 minute cooldown 50% aggro dump... which usually isn't good enough. We also tend to NOT do good DPS against trash mobs, unless we ignore our DoTs and just SB spam. :) Considered the most 'raid friendly' spec due to blood pact, fire shield and improved CoS or CoE. 

Demonology: Again, multiple varities of demolock. From my understanding of this spec, usually you summon a minion only to sacrifice it for the individual buff you gain, and spam SB. This spec, iirc, has the most self-boosting abilities for personal damage, rather than raid boosting. Demonology locks can do very good raid damage, but may have mana issues. (life tap and drain health only) I'm not overly familiar with it. Felguard is the big bonus to this spec, but the felguard's cleave makes micromanaging it a must. 

Destruction: Destrolocks/Firelocks are touted as a PvP spec, but has viability in raids. Poor mana conservation (life tap and drain health only), but good spike damage. Spike damage with a 5 minute cooldown on your only aggro-dump ability = bad. Which is probably why this is usually seen more in PvP than in raiding warlocks? This is the spec I have the least knowledge of. :) Who knows.. maybe the best raiding warlock out there is a demo-dest warlock? 

AoE: at 70, we get Seed of Corruption (which overwrites Corruption). SoC is arguably the best AoE ability out there. It takes a while to go off, so you can stack SoC on multiple mobs. When one SoC goes off, the rest do too (due to damage applied to the mob setting off SoC). SoC = 2000plusDPS + dead warlock. :)

Wonderful series of posts, by the way. 

There are I think something like 16 or 18 different "approved" specs of warlocks, and probably a few more individualized ones. Depending on what spec you are, gear desires will alter. Demo/Destro locks are more crit interested than an afflock. 

Of the variety of mana dependent damaging classes, warlocks are unique in most warlocks would rather have a higher health pool than a higher mana pool (at least in my experience. Life Tap = Love)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To start with&#8230; I&#8217;m biased towards a hybrid affliction spec (my own: dark pact/ruin), so take what I say with a grain of salt. </p>
<p>Affliction: Multiple varities of afflock. Highest raid damage is Unstable Affliction warlock, which has the most DoT&#8217;s of any spec of warlock. If they use malediction, their curse of elements/curse of shadow bonus damage is increased - which makes mages, warlocks and shadow priests happy (can&#8217;t wait until it&#8217;s just one curse!). Most afflocks keep their infinite mana potion (aka IMP) out and phased. Rarely run out of mana due to life tap + siphon life + dark pact. Aggro is an issue (for all warlock specs), as though you don&#8217;t spike quickly, you just keep going and we have a single 5 minute cooldown 50% aggro dump&#8230; which usually isn&#8217;t good enough. We also tend to NOT do good DPS against trash mobs, unless we ignore our DoTs and just SB spam. :) Considered the most &#8216;raid friendly&#8217; spec due to blood pact, fire shield and improved CoS or CoE. </p>
<p>Demonology: Again, multiple varities of demolock. From my understanding of this spec, usually you summon a minion only to sacrifice it for the individual buff you gain, and spam SB. This spec, iirc, has the most self-boosting abilities for personal damage, rather than raid boosting. Demonology locks can do very good raid damage, but may have mana issues. (life tap and drain health only) I&#8217;m not overly familiar with it. Felguard is the big bonus to this spec, but the felguard&#8217;s cleave makes micromanaging it a must. </p>
<p>Destruction: Destrolocks/Firelocks are touted as a PvP spec, but has viability in raids. Poor mana conservation (life tap and drain health only), but good spike damage. Spike damage with a 5 minute cooldown on your only aggro-dump ability = bad. Which is probably why this is usually seen more in PvP than in raiding warlocks? This is the spec I have the least knowledge of. :) Who knows.. maybe the best raiding warlock out there is a demo-dest warlock? </p>
<p>AoE: at 70, we get Seed of Corruption (which overwrites Corruption). SoC is arguably the best AoE ability out there. It takes a while to go off, so you can stack SoC on multiple mobs. When one SoC goes off, the rest do too (due to damage applied to the mob setting off SoC). SoC = 2000plusDPS + dead warlock. :)</p>
<p>Wonderful series of posts, by the way. </p>
<p>There are I think something like 16 or 18 different &#8220;approved&#8221; specs of warlocks, and probably a few more individualized ones. Depending on what spec you are, gear desires will alter. Demo/Destro locks are more crit interested than an afflock. </p>
<p>Of the variety of mana dependent damaging classes, warlocks are unique in most warlocks would rather have a higher health pool than a higher mana pool (at least in my experience. Life Tap = Love)</p>
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